The Mark, the Beast, the Number

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV
(16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
(17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Most other Bible versions only note two implications of the mark of the beast. Brandon pointed out to me earlier in the verse above that you see there is the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.

It actually makes a lot of sense to me that satan would use other means for his insignia in the world. It also helps his cause that it would cause divisions. Some might argue that the only form of mark will be through a microchip, such as the ones I posted about previously and at a local tattoo shop near you (RFID chips now installed in Dallas). Others will argue that it will only come from the Roman Catholic church. There are probably many theories out there with variations that I wont get into in this post. But what if there are different versions of the mark with the same meaning and cause?

We are told that the number of the beast is the number of a man.
Revelation 13:18 KJV
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Some say that the number is representative to the number of names satan has. I can understand how someone might come up with this false interpretation especially if they don’t understand how to count the number of a man (what does that really mean, anyway?). I’m also sure satan has more than 666 names. The verse also clearly say “it is the number of a man,” not “it is how many names he has.”

Let’s talk about the numbers.
We know through the Bible and history that the Romans were in Jeresalem. They were, after all, the ones who hung Christ on the cross with the consent of the Jews, to put it lightly. With the Romans about, it would be safe to say that their traditions and systems were being adapted by God’s chosen people, much like what happened when the Israelites didn’t fully destroy the Canaanites out of the promise land back in the days of Joshua. Adapting to other practices that were not from God seem to be a common theme throughout the Old Testament.
The point of me bringing this up is to point out that during the time Revelation was written the most likely the numerical system used was roman numerals.

Roman numerals

Now let’s go back to what John said about the number of the beast.
“Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:”
“and his number is Six hundred threescore and six” (666)

Speaking of Romans, if you look into the Roman Catholic church (and I suggest you do) they have many titles for their “leaders,” the highest being the pope.
I have many issues with the Catholic church as they do not follow the true Words of God in MANY, many areas. Even calling a priest “father” goes against what Christ said in Matthew 23:9. (And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matthew 23:9 KJV) The hierarchy of the Catholic church does like to put themselves in comparison and in the place of Christ quite often.
For example, the pope’s Latin title is “Vicarius Filii Dei” (“Vicor of the Son of God”). I wont get into the problems I have with those claiming to be the stepping stone to Christ right now, but if you take this title in Latin (and many of their titles fit into this as well) and compare it to the roman numerals you get this:

(non-roman numerals = 0)

(For more information on this visit:
It makes sense to me that the number of the man is not exactly his birth name but his title or “placement” on this earth. There isn’t exactly the specifics in the Bible that state it’s going to be his birth name or a name everyone calls him.
So far given the number of the name and counting the number of the beast this is the only thing I’ve seen that makes sense. I know the Roman Catholic church has something to do with a lot of Revelation and their more recent campaign for unity complete with “Come Home” ads and billboards furthers my suspicion.
For those who would argue that it’s either false religion OR trans-humanism (man and machine/mixed DNA), why couldn’t it actually be both? They’re fully capable of ‘joining forces’ in the future and I’m sure they will or already support each other in their ‘efforts to improve mankind.’

Yet something is still missing. There’s still what I feel is a third part that I haven’t noticed or hasn’t been revealed yet (to me or others, I’m not sure). I have more to say on the subject and this is not a ‘new’ discovery for me. For some reason I have felt led to finally talk about this as I haven’t much on this blog in the past.
There’s plenty to talk about with this subject but for now I’ll wait until I have more instruction on what to write about with this.


RFID chips now installed in Dallas

Yesterday, Brandon and I had eaten lunch at a local pizza shop. Upon leaving Brandon looked down at their newspaper racks and pointed out the Dallas Observer which featured this photo on the cover: (Note: I don’t usually read the Observer or newspapers in general. The Observer is also full of sex ads, a warning for those of you who might be interested in reading the article. I suggest looking online to avoid these ads.)


The actual printed cover states: “The Implanted” “Go inside DFW’s high tech labs and tattoo parlors where the relationship between man and machine is being reinvented.”

It’s clear to me that these microchips in the hand (RFID chips) are quite possibly the early stages of the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16-17; 14:9-11; 19:20; 20:4). When reading Revelation we are, in a human way of thinking, reading it as things that will happen suddenly. Most might think that it will be “all of the sudden” there is a choice to be made. They misunderstand the gradual process and conditioning society is being led into by the devil.
Satan is boastful and proud, that’s for sure, but when it comes to his own plans he’s going to attempt to bring things about under the radar and unnoticed by the masses. He is attempting to condition the minds of all the people into thinking that whatever he suggests is “not that big of a deal.”
They have already started implementing microchips into credit and debit cards. They have new readers that when you have one of these cards you have to insert the card a certain way instead of sliding it. How long before all cards are this way? And after they find a way to show how easily those systems could be “hacked” and suddenly need a “better and more secure” way of payment, how long before suggesting these implants?
I’ve read many articles of people that already have these implants to use for payments, among other things, and I don’t find it that surprising. Satan’s way of working is a slow trickle. To suggest things slowly so that it seems we’re just advancing in technology and as a race to make his plans seem normal.

One of the issues I believe a lot of believers will fall into when it comes to the mark of the beast is their Bible version. We all know there are many versions of the Bible out there and there is a lot of controversy about just that.
Let’s take a quick look at some of the verses I referenced above in different versions:

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV
(16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
(17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
(Brandon’s note: There are three different versions of this mark. “…he that had the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.”)

Revelation 13:16-17 NIV
(16) It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
(17) so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Revelation 13:16-17 ESV
(16) Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, (17) so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.
(Side Note: ESV’s “to be marked” can imply a forcible implication rather than “to receive” which implies free will in the decision for receiving such a mark)

Revelation 14:9 KJV
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:9 NIV
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,

Revelation 14:9 ESV
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Revelation 20:4 KJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 NIV
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 ESV
Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

If you read a more “Modern” version of a Bible you will notice that the verses in Revelation from the King James Version (KJV) say the mark will be “in” their hands or forehead, not “on” as the New International Version and English Standard Version say.

What’s the difference?
When going through to rewrite the King James Bible (yes, that’s what they were trying to do), to give a more “modern” and “understandable” version they write for what makes sense during their technological time which corrupts the written prophesy God has given us of what will come to pass.
Would it make sense to anyone back in the 1600’s to have a mark IN your hand or IN your forehead? Not really, but it was left in the proper translation despite a possible lack of understanding.
So why did they feel a need to change this in the “modern versions” in the 1970’s (NIV) and in the 1990’s (ESV, which is actually a revised version of the 1971 Revised Standard Version)?
Why did they feel a need to change “in” to “on” even while technology was advancing much faster by the twentieth century?

I have seen some that claim that the hebrew word for “on” is interchangable to “in” and therefore the change was made to what made more sense at the time. Of course the GREEK words, which are what the New Testiment is written in, for “on” (επί) and “in” (ἐν) are different so that argument is void. Look up the lexicons if you like, ‘on’ is G1909, ‘in’ is G1722.

The actual truth is although some may not have understood the terms for the word “on” in the KJV, they are actually writing the modern “bibles” from completely different manuscripts. These manuscripts, which have been proven to be false by many researchers, are said to be older and “more accurate” versions of the Word of God. Usually they are found by someone who claims to “recover” them who, in the end, is seeking fame and fortune. And that is exactly what they get. Is that how God works?
Is that how His Words were written?
I didn’t know Moses was seeking fame and fortune and “happened upon” discovering God’s already written words.
I didn’t know the disciples were seeking their own selfish desires while many died trying to spread the Word of God.

It’s not how God works. That’s how cults are formed.

(Note: most stores and people do not tell you they use different manuscripts that they claim are “older” and therefore more “accurate” when rewriting Bible translations. I suggest those who haven’t look into this and see all that has been changed and removed. This is a decent source for such examples:

Well, so what? So what if modern “bibles” are changed a few things. So what if the word “in” has been changed to “on”?

The problem is that the Lord, our God, has written down HIS words to help us. To lead and guide us. To tell us beforehand what is to happen. Changing His words changes what to believe. It will lead people to believe He is wrong, which is not possible. It will lead those to misunderstand what is really going on in the world and what to watch out for.

Do you trust the Word of God? Do you trust they are HIS words? Then why are you reading a version that has changed what He has already said?

Revelation 22:18-19 KJV
(18)  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:  (19)  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Why does the Bible need to be changed? Because someone has told you it’s too difficult to read? The KJV is easier to understand than most modern bibles, I can testify to that. I’ve had the Lord speak to me through the KJV more than any other “version” I’ve ever tried to read. It completely changed the relationship I have with Christ. It’s the Word of God; it’s infallible, self-referencing, and prophetic, not watered down and confusing. It doesn’t leave others to wonder what God really thinks and feels, especially in the circumstances we are in today with society.

Mark 13:35-37 KJV
(35) Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:  (36)  Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 
(37)  And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

The spirit of Blindness

Though in some ways we are all blind and it is through Christ that our eyes are opened, there are still many out there that have not had their eyes opened fully. Some seem to have a blind spirit attached to them. I’ve come across many, in person, online, through best-selling Christian books, that are so convinced that they have found the REAL truth. Some claim that God speaks to them regularly but at a closer inspection their fruits are corrupted.
If confronted they become immediately defensive when questioned about what this spirit is telling them or what they may be seeing. Many read the Bible and will continually use scripture but neglect holding up scripture to their own experiences. It’s easy to take scripture and apply it to any idea that may come into your head, claiming that is the true meaning of the verse, and it is another thing to be seeking discernment to understand what God is actually saying.
Through defensiveness some will become angry and lash out at any who may question them. Some claim, through much pride, that they do not follow any teachings of man but that of Christ. The irony is that they expect everyone else to trust their own words (them being of man) and anyone that tries to question or compare their teachings to scripture is accused of not being a true follower of Christ.

Why is it important to test the spirits?

Beloved, believe not ever spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. – 1 John 4:1

Christ had already warned the disciples that false prophets and teachers had come into the world. Many were skewing what He was teaching to gain their own followers for their own desires.

When some are questioned about what they are hearing, seeing, or studying they can immediately become defensive and often the conversation is changed in a way (usually taking the questions as personal attacks) that will make no sense to the one doing the questioning.
They do not understand that it is not so much their own words in question but the spirit that may be speaking to them. I’ve come across some that when given straight biblical points as to why I might question what they are sharing they have an apparent change in tone to one that is aggressive. Afterwards they move on to personal attacks, which don’t quite work considering some do not know enough about me personally, and attempt to build themselves back up to a self-justified state of mind.
Some seem to have not only a spirit of blindness but a spirit of confusion as well. Biblical truths brought up that should end all debates of their arguments are often ignored or the subject is quickly changed to argue another point. All the while it is clear that they do not fully understand what it is they are trying to argue and when it is compared to scripture as a whole, what they are saying can quickly fall apart.

I have to realize the sad truth that there are many out there who do not realize that there are many spirits selling false gospels. I would love to believe that most people are taught what to stay away from, but it’s very evident that many are not. I’m not claiming I have it all down but I will say that I will not reject scripture to test what the Lord is telling me or anyone else. In fact, I encourage it and constantly ask God to correct me if I am incorrect about any topic I might have a strong feeling about. I find others that use gifts of the Holy Spirit to confirm or deny anything that might come up that is not clearly understood or does not align itself through scripture.

I believe that many people are caught up in the lies of having their own personal spirit guide, which they believe is Jesus speaking to them, or some form of secret ways to Heaven that no one else seems to understand. I believe that these are really people who may be bruised and in need of healing. Some may need deliverance.
Many want to feel special and to have some secret or unknown knowledge. To be held above the rest and to know more than anyone else. To be on special speaking terms with the Lord where we hear from Him so clearly it’s unquestionable. The fact is that some people use the words they are hearing and their entire truth when that may not be the case. Would Christ really speak to someone about another believe in a hurtful or hateful way? Would God sit around and gossip about His other children? Would He claim that there is no one else in the world that gets it remotely correct except for that ONE person?
These are spirits that are spreading hatred and confusion that are attaching themselves to believers. I do not believe I have to point out the dangers in this.

We also have to remember that Satan will even masquerade as an angel of light:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.  (14)  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.  (15)  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. – 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

So we see the importance of testing the spirits. Satan, and those who work for him, can easily pretend to be spirits of light, ministers of righteousness, spreading false doctrines and false truths of how to be closer with Christ or who Christ really is.
The other side of this is that true believers can easily fall into the false teachings. Although their hearts might be for God they may not realize that what they are coming into is NOT what God intended to be taken as His truth.
Not every false prophet or teacher is obvious in their ways. Some of them cannot see or discern what may be speaking to them and they are truly convicted it is the Lord. Some, with that same conviction, will not listen to any other believer that may try to help them see the truth.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:  (17)  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. – 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Scripture should never be thrown out when it comes to testing spirits. It should be used CORRECTLY in ways to truly test them to see if they uphold and not just to back up what people might want to say or believe. Many people use scripture to justify their means and there are far too many that will believe and follow them.

I’m not claiming I have all understanding and know what’s what in this world, but I am certainly interested in working on trying. True discernment comes from the Lord and the only way to utilize it more accurately is to be closer in a relationship with Him. Study His words, communicate with Him regularly, open your heart and worship Him, get on your face and seek the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul.

I’m not writing this to confuse anyone or accuse anyone of their own actions, I’m writing this because I feel convicted to. I’m not sure if the conviction is through my own heart or His. I see people around me that are lacking in His truth and it incredibly sad to me. They need prayers and unfortunately they need help that they will not accept. I pray that I never become so blind through my own experiences to disregard the true words of God and those who are truly following Him. Those who try to use the gospel for profitable doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.. So that we too may be a perfect children of God, throughly furnished unto all good works.

False Prophets, False Witnesses, & the Christian World

I thought it would be beneficial to write a little about my view on false prophets and witnesses, as well as being careful how we, as Christians, treat one another.
Through my own personal investigations I have come across quite a few that I would consider “false prophets” or “false witnesses.” A lot of these come in many different forms and can teach through video, websites, books, churches, ministries, radios, magazines, devotionals.. You get the idea. They can be anywhere and have been popping up since before the times of Christ, throughout His time here, and the time before His second coming, which is now (Deuteronomy 13:1-5, Matthew 7:15, Romans 16:17-18).
What’s still always amazes me is just how easy it is to be deceived or to deceive those around us (I’ve been there too). Even God says in Jeremiah 5:29-31, “Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?  (30)  A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;  (31)  The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?”

Not only do the people easily follow false teachings but they do so very willingly. It is something far too easy to witness going on around us and is scary to see as it is on TV, online, from the pulpit, in magazines, books, on radios.. it’s everywhere and people will believe what they want to believe. The problem with that is that not everything we want to believe is the truth. There’s a reason that God leads us better than man does. When man starts to think that he knows best (and we’ve all been there in regards to our own lives or situations around us) then all that is taught is what is best to better serve man’s own ideals rather than God’s.
I for one am a very skeptical Christian and I like to think that there are many out there that can be just as skeptical and question things, especially in this day and age as it seems we are getting closer and closer to the times prophesied in Revelations.  But even I have been corrected by God, many times, concerning what I believed to be truth. Although it was painful here and there I am incredibly thankful for it in the long run. I would much rather be told that I’m wrong by Him than find out the hard way later on or never find out at all.

Concerning false prophets and teachers, I have come across quite a few but I have not written about as many as I have found as that would end up taking up most of my time. I have written short things about them here and there in the hopes that others will learn to what they should watch out for. Other times I have listed sites that have already written about such people or their teachings to better help inform those around me. I also have not written about most of my personal experiences with the ones I have come across.
Concerning the Local Church and Witness Lee that I have mentioned in the past, I did attend one of their churches for a little while until God revealed what was really going on. There are still some people from that church that I, or my friends, might have to deal with sometime in the future. I still pray for many people who I have come across that God has revealed their blindness and I will continue to pray for them.
There are other people, like Tom Deckard, who calls himself a Jewish prophet and is what we would consider a spiritually abusive leader. He uses fear to promote his own leadership and says that we should all escape America while we can (among many other false teachings). There are many more like him that also promote similar things, most of which lead people to selling all of their possessions and going off to live in some little commune, island, or territory that they have acquired by their “leaders.” They are told in order to be safe and saved from the tyranny of this world that they must abide by the rules and laws that their “leader” has set in place and if they do not they will have to leave. They use fear to promote that we need to go and hide to protect ourselves and that by following them they will be protected. They take away the protection we have through Christ by causing fear; fooling some to believe that true protection from from them.
I wonder… what was it Christ says about running off to hide and protect yourself?
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. – Matthew 16:25

I would say that it is very easy to fall into the propaganda that is put out there. There are many Christians who are not willing to work on their relationship with God themselves, those who are stuck inside a watered down version of God’s word and teachings, those who are taught that someone else can do it all for them, and some that fall prey to fear that is used to try to convict them that giving man control over our spiritual lives is the best thing.
Seeing the world the way it is now, especially compared to what the Bible says, can be a scary thing. What a lot are not taught, do not see, or forget is,
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  (19)  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:  (20)  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. – Matthew 28:18-20

So what we can gather is that we are not supposed to be hiding away and waiting for the end of the world, but we are to be speaking God’s word, sharing His love, and to remember that He is always with us, “even unto the end of the world.” I would say that’s a pretty powerful statement and we would be wise to remember it, especially when the powers of man are used to promote fear in order to get us to do what they want. What else can be said about that?
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. – Isaiah 53:7

So we see the importance of not only being careful as to who we follow but also being careful to let others around us know about such things. We must also always seek God above all things as He is our ruler and not man.

There are times that I will list links or have quotes from others from books or other sites. I try to always make a point to leave a side note that I do not necessarily follow all of the teachings from whom I might be quoting. I cannot see the hearts of man (his intentions) like God can (1 Corinthians 2:11, 1 Samuel 16:7, Genesis 8:21) so I will not claim that any one man is completely correct in their teachings. Typically when I quote someone else I am using it because they have written it better than I could and also to drive a point. Not all of their views are my own. Most of the time the quotes I come across that I use I find that I have never actually heard of the person (or group) that I am referring to, which is often why I sometimes do not link back to their sites as I do not know what they are fully teaching and am simply using what they have said about a particular subject that can be agreed with when compared to scripture.

With all that being said about false teachers, we must always pray about such matters and realize there will be times when we have to be careful as to who or how we relate such warnings. It is incredibly easy to become offended when you are told something that you thought seemed trust worthy was not something you should believe in, that it is misleading, or that there’s a hidden agenda behind it. Put yourself in their shoes; I imagine it would make someone feel that their intelligence is being questioned. At the same time we also have to remember that most of us probably believed something in our lives that we later found out wasn’t exactly truth. I can relate many things from my childhood that I was told and taught that I now realize was either false or not the entire truth. I do not blame many of those who taught me but realize that it comes from a long line of ignorance of the matters and in our societies it is just continually being passed down and not corrected with scripture as it should be. (That’s a whole different matter that I will not get into right now.)
Now that I am older and seeking God and the truth for myself, through studying, and researching while using the Scriptures as my guideline, I have found that there are many things that have not been what I originally thought. We have to be open-minded enough (not set in our ways from the teachings of men) in our walk with God for the Holy Spirit to move through us and teach us. We cannot just take the words spoken to us at face value and accept it all as fact. Even my own words right now should be tested with scripture and with the Spirit of the Lord.

There have been other “teachers” out there that I have stumbled upon, many of whom have written books that are now said to be New York Times Best Sellers. That should be one of the biggest clues that there are agendas behind the book when it becomes a New York Times Best Seller (and is also featured on Oprah, who is one of the biggest celebrities that endorses New Age philosophies). Typically what most “Christian theology/philosophy” in the mainstream media is taught has a lot of New Age agendas behind it. They teach a watered down and/or false gospel of accepting everyone despite their beliefs. Now I am not saying that because I do not accept everyone’s beliefs that I hate them, I’m saying that I do not accept them as a personal truth for my own life and I do not allow their beliefs to determine what I might decide in my own life. I do not have to accept their beliefs when making decisions for myself or my future family, I have to look to God and my own beliefs when it concerns my personal life.
There is a lot more to that particular New Age agenda that I will not get into right now, but I did want to point out that by “not accepting someone’s beliefs” does not mean that I hate them. It means that I do not recognize their beliefs as truth. They are still human, still made in God’s image as am I, and He still loves them and wants them to turn to Him.

Anyway, I just wanted to touch base on some of my views as to why I question everything. To point out that I try my best to use scripture as my basis for every teacher, preacher, minister, ministry, person, or people who I come across. I ask questions and many times people can find them offensive despite the intentions behind them. This is actually more common with Christians than non-believers as many are taught that if it has a Christian label on it and uses a few quotes from the Bible then it must be true. What can easily be pointed out, again, is that even Satan used scripture against Christ when he was tempting him in the wilderness (Matthew 4:5-7). So when we are questioned, even by other Christians, we need to learn to not be offended and understand that we will all be tested.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. – 1 John 4:1

Hopefully soon I will write a post concerning some of the many ways we can test the spirits.
Please continue to keep me in your prayers as I continue to pray for those who may read this as well.

Witness Lee Clarification

I think it should be clarified on the thoughts and conclusions I have come to concerning Living Stream Ministry and the teachings of Witness Lee. Awhile back I made a post about some of the research I did on the matter as I was attending one of the churches brought up by LSM. The Lord allowed me to see the truth behind what was being taught and I quickly realized I needed to get out of there.

What I wanted to clarify goes more along the lines with the spiritual gifts. Now, Paul wrote to the Corinthians concerning the spiritual gifts and he pretty much laid it all out there. If you’re going to use them, which you should, use them in the right manner. God chooses who He gives each gift to and some gifts work differently for each person. For Example: if I have the gift of discernment and feel a strange spiritual presence in one area while another person, with the same gift, is able to see or hear a spirit, then it can very well be confirmed there’s something going on. There are different variations with how the gifts work for each person and each person is given their own gift. (There’s a lot of debate about people having multiple gifts or only receiving one. I can’t really testify to that myself as I only know of the one for me right now and I’m not willing to assume any others for myself without a revealing from God.)

Think of it as a puzzle that when all the pieces come together they will reveal what God has to tell us about something. If I have one piece, you have another, and three more people each have one piece, then we need to put them together to see the full picture. We need to work together. This is what Paul was trying to stress to the Corinthians, that the gifts are to be used to edify the church and bring more people to know Christ.

Does that mean that God wont speak to you strongly while you’re spending time with Him alone? No. But if He gives you a prophesy it should be shared with those you trust in order for you all to figure out the true meaning of it. One thing people tend to lose sight of is that God speaks in different ways and while you might get one interpretation, the many other interpretations might actually come together to mean something else. That there might be different meaning to what God was telling you than you first realized.

This is what I felt that Witness Lee did. I feel that he had one piece of the puzzle and with not testing it he took it as a sign that he was a new prophet for God. That HE had the correct way for all of us and we need to obey HIM. It’s kind of sad to see how someone can study so much of the Bible and miss so many important points. I believe that after all this was happening and Witness Lee was writing of the things he felt were true revelations from God, he started allowing that to build his own ego, not staying humble (as we are also told to do as servants to the Lord). I’ve even heard he went as far as calling himself the “Oracle.”

I guess the important thing to remember when you go to speak to others about what you feel God is telling you is to ask who it’s going to glorify. Remember share these things humbly and test everything before you have a full conclusion.

Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-22

Tom Deckard – the (false) Jewish Prophet

(Backdate: 6/17/14 10:38 PM)

Yesterday I came across a video online of a “Jewish [self proclaimed] Prophet” that seemed very passionate about what he claims God is telling him. At first some of the things he was saying seemed to make sense, as most false prophets will do, and upon further investigation I learned a lot of truths about this man are incredibly false.

 His name is Tom Deckard.

He has his own website, which is slightly painful to even look at, where he goes on about his prophesies that have already come true, how credible he is (not sure by whom), and even has a gif image of a smokey mist floating around his head in pictures claiming that it’s “the Holy Ghost” working with him. His website states,

“These pictures have been examined by experts proving their authenticity [no experts cited]. When the cloud appears, all manner of healings, miracles, salvation and deliverance comes to those who come in contact with the cloud. The cloud has demonstrated the glory of G-d to such an extent that many of other religions fall on their faces and receive Jesus as their L-rd and Savior.”

Honestly, it’s a pretty puny looking cloud. I don’t know about you, but I’m pretty sure that if such things were happening in the statement above, it wouldn’t have been a situation of chance that they got a picture of what looks like someone smoking a cigar.

Needless to say I saw no evidence of testimonies from anyone other than himself that what he was saying was the truth. No scriptural back up. No testimonies. Just falsehood and bologna.

He is a self proclaimed prophet claiming to have prophesied over such things as the current going-ons with the US and Russia to the swine flu epidemic. There have been no posts or witnesses to his “prophesies” and I haven’t seen any testimonies (other than his over inflated opinion of himself) that further prove what he has said.

Do people really not understand how easy it is to back date anything written on a computer? Or anything written in general for that matter. Do they not understand how easy it is to manipulate documents or writings?

I don’t claim to be an expert in the field of falsehood, but even I can edit most anything on my computer if I really want to.

Back to the false prophet, I entered his name in a Google search and instantly found several websites up that speak against him. Here are just some of the ones I found:

A False Prophet – Tom Deckard

DECKARD’S DEMONICS – A Profile Of “Prophet” Tom Deckard

Who Is Tom Deckard?

Beware of the False Prophet Tom Deckard

The Truth About Tom Deckard

Now, I must admit, I am very impressed with the way the (The Truth About Tom Deckard) created a page titled Tom says – God says to put some of the things he has claimed in his writings, website, and even audio CDs, putting them side by side with scripture (when what was spewing out of his mouth was even able to be compared to what Scripture says). I found most of what they quoted him saying, which I’ve heard some of it for myself, almost amusing. For example:


In his CD Series “Man & His Family” Mr. Deckard states, “If your wife will not submit to you… get rid of her!  There are plenty out there who will.”


Matthew 19:16  “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”


A False Prophet – Tom Deckard – has some interesting news articles on the matter of him claiming to be an Orthodox Jew, having prophesied for over 40 years in this ministry. Honestly, it’s the first I’ve ever heard of him and as far as the articles have said, he was a pastor at a church until it was learned that he had been sleeping around with several wives in the congregation (which one then left her husband to marry him. I guess they’re still together).

Although I find it heartbreaking that others out there are naive enough to believe such a man, we were warned about this. The most I can do is pray for those out there getting sucked into such things and hope that they listen to God and open their eyes.

I’ll end this post here. I’m running out of fuel and I don’t feel that this needs to waste any more of my time.

Just be careful who you listen to and remember to question and test everything.


Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 7:15-20

The false teachings of Witness Lee

(Backdate: 6/8/14 12:59 PM)

I figured I should probably share some of the things that I have found during my personal investigation of the Living Stream Ministry and the writings of Witness Lee. About what others have found in their own investigations, both personal or not, or through the writings of Lee himself.

I have come across a ton of articles about lawsuits the Local Churches have implemented against others who have published opinions made about them into books or even just sections of their books. Some of these lawsuits have come down to the Local Church pushing their lawsuit to the point of bankruptcy on the other side, leaving the ones they were suing unable to defend themselves in court.

Upon reading articles, personal letters to other churches or ministries, personal testimonies, and even a few books concerning the LSM, I’ve come to conclude that Witness Lee thought of himself as the only one these “revelations” were revealed to. Wouldn’t a true revelation be revealed to more than just one person? Wouldn’t there be others that would also pray about these things in order to confirm they were truly from God?

I’ve also come to realize that although they claim to accept all Christians as their brothers and sisters in Christ, they have no intention of spreading such revelations to any other Christian churches in their city. This comes back to the “One church, one city” aspect they claim they have adapted from the Bible, claiming that because there were only documented few in our Bible of letters to one church or another, than there must not have been any other groups or churches that came about, that taught about the love of Christ, salvation, etc. in those same cities. They’re all for building churches in new cities, states, and countries, but when it comes to meeting with other churches or ministries to work in their own, local communities, there is silence.

I’ve copied a few things from one of the books I was reading concerning them from a man that was heavily involved in the church for many years, in the 80’s. At first, I wondered if maybe the church I was going to might not be as the way he made some of them sound, or that maybe things have changed for LSM since the 80’s, but upon reading other testimonies of people around the globe, I’ve come to realize that it’s better to have nothing to do with this ministry.

When considering questions like, “But aren’t they Christians too?” or “Aren’t they trying to spread the word of God and help others find Jesus?” I believe they are Christians, but I also believe that they’re putting more faith into the writings of Witness Lee than the Bible. I believe they are allowing themselves to be filled more with what Witness Lee has “revealed” about the Bible, instead of putting faith in the Holy Spirit to help us have our own personal revelations about what the Bible is saying.

I’ve also found that they typically use parts of scripture to back up the teachings of Witness Lee, though most of which are taken out of context to support such teachings. You can easily look at people that are fully engrossed in such teachings and see their cookie cutter responses and quotes of what Witness Lee teaches about one thing or another, backed up with fragments of Bible versus, but not what the Bible itself teaches.

I think it’s important to realize that even parts of the testimonies I will post on here (which I will link to as I’m not going to post all of them), that though some are from other countries, they are all dealing with a part of LSM (which started from another country than the US). Even if the church you are currently going to doesn’t seem to act the same way, it is still learning from the same ministry that teaches and condones such actions and attitudes, and that while involved in said ministry, teaching that you should conform to what they are “encouraging” you to do, act, how to pray, speak, and what you share with others.

I’ve looked into both sides of this. Despite what you might think with some of the next things I’m posting of what people have written about Witness Lee and LSM, remember that I’ve also looked at what Witness Lee is teaching himself.

Some of the things he has written in his teachings, which other enthusiasts of his ministry have also posted while trying to teach others what Lee says, instead of what the Bible says, include:


  • Some brothers have said that only the saints meeting with us are the local church. This kind of speaking is too much. We should say only that the believers meeting with us are a part of the local church. Although according to the ground, principle, and nature there is no question that we are only a part of the local church. For example, the local church in Taipei, in principle, includes all the believers in Taipei; however, because of the division of the church, many believers are segregated in denominations. They have departed from the ground of the local church and left us, the minority, to stand on the ground of the local church. Hence, in reality we are only part of the local church in Taipei. If all the believers would return to the local ground, the church in Taipei would include all believer in the local church. (Lessons for New Believers, chapter 18)
  • Today there are saved ones in every sect and denomination, including the Catholic Church. We acknowledge that they are our brothers and sisters and are members of the Body of Christ, yet they have lost the ground of the church and no longer stand on the ground of the church. They can be compared to family members who have left home and have gone to other places. (Lessons for New Believers, chapter 18)

Sounds all great and Christian-like, doesn’t it? It is true, and I agree, that we need to accept other believers no matter where they come from. But to say that other denominations have stepped away from the “ground of the church,” as if to say they are stepping away from what God really wants from all believers, is a form of hypocrisy.

To say that they’ll accept them as long as they have Christ is one thing, but to not acknowledge that God is working among millions of different Christian churches is another, despite whatever name they have. This is the reason they try to call themselves “the church of [insert city name here]”, they want to try to make it sound as if they don’t belong to a certain section of Christian views (which all the views they take on are from Witness Lee), but that they have no real “name.” But by doing this they are giving themselves a name and they are falling into a non-denominational section of Christian views. Isn’t that what Lee was claiming we should not do?


My question in all of this is more based around things such as, why is it that only Witness Lee seemed to have this revelation about “the local ground” that God seems to work in? Why is it that, although other ministries and churches follow God in the way that He is telling them to, that they are considered to be out of touch with the truth God has allowed all of us to have? It is not about what name you belong to, as far as church is concerned, how they worship or practice anything, it’s about our faith in God and where He is leading us. If there were such theories in the Bible of the “true church” being lost, Christ would have warned us of that. We are all different and we all have similarities, but this does not mean that if one church worships one way than another, than one is more correct. God calls us in this with the same message: To share the love of Him through sending his Son, Jesus Christ. How can you justify saying that only one way of sharing this message is correct?

Furthermore, if they believe that only they stand on the “true ground of the church,” but it is believers in general that make up that ground, why do they not seek out other local churches for functions or worship? Because they are condemning the “name” that these churches have taken. Say my name is Steve, but your name is George. Well, George, you might believe the same as me, but we don’t have enough in common and therefore you are wrong and too different. You need to change your name to Steve so we can hang out and be considered one under God’s eyes.

What makes up different denominations? The different cultures, views, and interpretations, because let’s face it, we all have different opinions. God made us all different, we’re not cookie cutters to conform into one little church or group, we are meant to learn from each other’s experiences, views, and opinions. To conform to just one opinion and view would be wrong and would defeat the purpose of us being different. You might say, “But the churches based around LSM DO accept different views and other cultures.” They do within their own groups. They slowly conform everyone else to do what Witness Lee teaches, to think the way he thinks, to say what he says, and quote more from his books than the Bible.

You might then argue that I wasn’t around it long enough to actually see these things, but I saw it almost every where I went. I do not believe it is wrong when someone attending a church might pick up on how others do things, the style they pray, the way they talk, etc. But I don’t like seeing that everyone becomes a cookie cutter form of this, all speaking in the same manner, praying the same way, singing the same way and only from their own hymnals that their set ministry has published, reading their own literature which is also only published from their same ministry. They go on speaking of not having a narrow mindedness towards other believers but then also wont include any other ministries or literature written by anyone else that isn’t published by LSM (which was founded by Witness Lee).

Lee also writes:
We should receive people according to God’s receiving, not being more narrow than God, thereby demonstrating and maintaining the oneness of the Body of Christ. Furthermore, we should receive people according to the Son of God, according to God, not according to the doctrine or practice, thus maintaining a condition of absolute peace, smoothness, and order, without any deviation and discord, in the fellowship of the Body of Christ to the glory of God (The Experience of God’s Organic Salvation Equaling Reigning in Christ’s Life, p. 68)


  • Our Testimony
  • As we have stated in the past and shall continue to testify in the future, we do not agree with denominations. According to the Scriptures, denominations are divisions in the Body of Christ (please show me where it says that). However, this need not keep us from having fellowship with our brothers and sisters in the denominations. In the book cited above (p. 104) Witness Lee says:
  • Regardless of whether others are in the divisions or not, we must recognize that they are our brothers. This does not mean that we go along with their divisions. No, we cannot do this, but we must love all the saints… They all have the same divine life as we.. In redemption and in life we are all the same.

In saying that they would receive a fellow Christian based out of their love of Christ is fine, but to say that they must not accept any doctrine or practice that any other fellow brothers and sisters read, is in a sense, being narrow minded. Witness Lee sure seems to think it’s completely fine that everyone reads what he has to say, so why should he be our new prophet with the only right answers? That which they just went on and on about NOT being, they are being for not accepting any other views about someone’s faith (because we’re all different and experience things differently, which allows for the Bible and Holy Spirit to speak to us differently about different situations). So while trying to convince everyone they accept everyone else who is a denuine Christian, they do not fully accept other view points or interpretations that are also made through the Holy Spirit working through someone else. This is the point I have tried to make before to other people when I would question if they ever read anything else that wasn’t published by LSM (which is mostly Witness Lee’s writings). We need these different view points from all types of people so we can, not only see how God is working in the world, but see how diverse He is and how He works through all who have received Him. Regardless of what church they attend or how they prefer to worship. I say, let the Holy Spirit move them however seems fitting to God’s Will.

(On another note, did you know there is a support group for people that leave these churches and ministry? To let them know that there’s more out there and help them heal from the experiences they’ve had? That was a big red flag to me, not that it was a support group offering healing to people who have been burned by unloving Christianity, because we’ve all experienced some degree of that, but for those who have been hurt in the LSM. It’s based in Anaheim, CA)

Here are some things that I have found in one of the books I’ve read on the matter:

“Jealousy and strife are two unavoidable characteristics of the divisive heart (1 Cor 3:3). This is due to the fact that “unique” fellowships always lead to the formation of an “us” and “them.” The “them” is the ideological foe represented by the rest of the Christian community–those who have not “seen the revelation.” Insiders perceive these “blinded” believers as a massive threat to their doctrinal and spiritual purity. And it is nearly impossible for them to mask their poor attitudes.One man described to me a small group setting where a non-LSM book (but soundly evangelical) was being read. Each person took a turn reading, except a pro-LSM woman, who passed the book on each time, poker-faced, without so much as a glance downward. Knowing something of her personal religious bents, he concluded that the minister she was under was hate-based.Another person, a Christian not familiar with LC Movement culture, asked why a pro-LSM man who worked with him could not ever carry on a pleasant conversation about God. “He spends all his time trying to correct me,” the man said.

“If something is being recovered, that means it existed, was lost, and then was found. But the oneness supposedly recovered by the LC Movement, so marred with animosity toward others, cannot be located in the scriptures. It never existed. Thus, we ought to remember a simple principle: when something was recovered that never actually existed in the past, then it has not been recovered; it has been invented.

“Far from feeling sinful, sectarian systems can embolden their members while providing a sense of exclusive belonging, security, and mission. Lest we live in that kind of fool’s paradise, we must construct, from the ground up, what we really are according to the truth. This will not be too difficult. The Bible only tells us that we are the Body of Christ. We are not something else, something better, or something superior. We do not stand apart from the Body of Christ, since that is a divisive statement. Nor are we better than the rest of the Body of Christ as that is an elitist statement. We are simply Christian, members of the overall Body, no better than anyone else. The Bible refuses to say more. It does not describe a “manchild church” or a church of firstfruits. Far from fleeing common fellowship for more victorious pastures, the overcomers remain in the context of ordinary church involvement all the way up until the rapture.Flustered saints have asked me, “Then if we’re not the Lord’s Recovery, what makes us different than anyone else?” In response to this question, I would ask, must we be different? Must we try to have something other than what Christians at large are offering–things like biblical truth, salvation, Christ, the loving community of believers, and help in perfecting one’s ministry? In fact, if we are hoping to impart something other than those things, then it is we who no longer match biblical description of the church. When we cannot be peaceful among other Christian groups without assuming an elevated status, then that is the lingering fruit of a partisan mindset, not a legitimate vision.”“Taking our place in the common fellowship of Christ’s Body considerably simplifies and enriches church life. However, it comes at the price of shedding religious egos. That means banishing the habit of vilifying everyone else (or even nicely demoting them). If we are special, or in some positive sense “unique,” then let others tell us. Just as Paul said, they will report that God is truly among you (1 Cor 14:25). If we spend most of our time trying to convince ourselves and our visitors how special we are, how unique, pure, and God-blessed, then there’s something wrong. Together with all true believers, we have been equally elevated to the greatest place in the universe–to be Christ’s own body. Our mission is not to occupy some fictitious higher peak. Being at rest with this humble reality, we can then turn our attention to the more pressing concerns of living out what we are.”The Body of Chris was another emphasis that slowly crept down from the upper echelons of the LC Movement into its local membership. At first most of us said nothing against it because of its Biblical nature, and in fact said “Amen” when we heard it. Still, the phrase “the Body of Christ” which later became “the Body” which later turned into a weirdly intoned “the baaaaady” became a catchword unto itself. No longer was it teaching for general edification. There was an elite considered to be “the representatives of the Body,” which had “the feeling of the Body,” “knew the Body” “saw the Body,” “understood the leading in the Body” and “moved in the Body.” It could even excommunicate (“quarantine”) others in the name of “the Body.” The Body became an entreat meant to contest local decisions that were not in accordance with “the ministry.” As exaggerated by LSM authorities, “the Body” was versus “the churches.”

The Bible does not say to build up the “many” bodies of Christ, but THE Body of Christ. Which is to say, all of the believers IN Christ. When you go from saying you are denominational to NON-denominational, you are still in a form of denomination. This “non-denominational” is a section, a function, a church, a ministry, a group of people, that doesn’t feel they fall under on specific denomination. That is fine. What they need to realize is that in claiming they have no “title” or “name” they are then giving themselves a title of “non-denominational.”For those trying to not have a set name for their church let me ask, who are the light bills billed to? What title do they have on their church? How are they listed in the phone book? With their “title” which is, their name. So those who are claiming their church is THE true church, consider they are another church, with another title (“name”), and their own views and opinions, just like any other church that is comprised of believers in Christ.

No attempt was made in the New Testament record to form a connectional system between churches. If one did exist, then apparently the Holy Spirit chose to not bring it to the forefront as an important issue to be copied or implemented.Yet the alleged last will and testament of Witness Lee mandated coming together multiple times of the year for “blending.” The need of these activities, which is not accept as necessary, has been grossly overstated. With such a culture of conformity among local churches, it is hard to imagine any church needing to blend away their differences, especially when they are already 99.9% the same! Even if no conferences occurred for the next twenty-five years, videos, books, and visits would continue to exert a strong conforming influence upon member congregations. It is ironic that Local Church members would spend so much time to “blend” with other (virtually identical) Local Churches. This, while ignoring nearby non-LC congregations of fellow-believers in their own cities, who also belong to Christ’s one Body. If blending were a divine mandate, then the local setting is exactly where it would really be needed!

(A Future and A Hope – Ex-Insider’s Analysis of Witness Lee & The Local Church Movement)

Testimonies and personal letters from abroad: 


“…It is something that concerns our spiritual life and we should not take it lightly.”



“The following Wednesday, the brothers from Taiwan came. They introduced themselves. They told that they were from Living Stream Ministries (LSM) and they are involved in selling books published by LSM. We were not much concerned about their activities. Since they told they were also believers, we welcomed them. Soon we started noticing some peculiar behavior in all of them. We noticed that all of them telling ‘O LORD JESUS’ in a peculiar ascent. For every sentence spoken by one of them, all others told Amen. They all used the same version of Bible. They had a song book in which songs were unusually long. After they sang a song, they read it stanza by stanza and others told amen. After the meeting, one younger brother asked why they behaved like this. I told that brother that it might be their way of fellowshipping. I have seen Nigerian fellowships. They move their body while singing and express their joy openly. I too thought that it might be the culture of Taiwanese to say amen after every sentence spoken by others. I thought in Taiwan they might read song after they sing the song. Even though we found it strange, we never took it seriously. I told the younger brothers that we must not feel bad if someone worship Lord in a different way. Soon the Taiwan brothers brought another brother who was an Indian. What surprised all of us is that he too was behaving in the same manner. Then we thought his long acquaintance with the Taiwanese brothers made him behave like that. Meanwhile the brothers from Taiwan gave us some books. They were all either written by Watchman Nee [purported from LSM not CFP or CLC] or Witness Lee. I used to read these books during my free time. I found many things written in these books unacceptable. I used to ask the brothers from LSM about it. They told me, ’we’ will study about it latter or sometime they gave evasive replay. Soon we noticed that they all repeat the same thing as if a tape recorder plays a short message again and again. Each of them told the same thing with the same degree of emotion. The same sentences and the same unfamiliar words like organic communion, processed God etc were told. I felt they really don’t know what they are talking and they have by hearted some things and are pouring it out. They quoted lot of verses from bible to support what they say. We also noticed they omit some things which they should have told in relation to the things they are talking about. I remember once they told we who are saved are pre destined be saved and others who are not being saved are not predestined to salvation [predestination of calvinism is not the same as predestination of osas arminian]. They took many verses to support their statement.


One young brother then told God want every one to be saved…1Tim 2:3,4. He also pointed out that hell is not created for man but for devil and his angels…Matt 25:41 [If hell is not for man, then why is God sending many men to hell?]. I felt that they heard for the first time these verses and they are trained in such away they are oriented to think only in one direction. We continued fellowshipping together. Soon they came with some photocopies of some portions of Witness Lee’s writings and gave each one of us a copy. They asked each one to read a sentence. Then every one started telling amen. First, I didn’t take it seriously. I thought about many bible study sessions where we give photocopy of notes or main points. Soon it became a regular affair. Now our meetings started with 15 to 20-stanza hymn from a hymnbook that LSM brothers carried, that was dull and had confusing words. After singing, we started reading the stanzas one by one and they all together told amen. Then we read Witness Lees Book photocopy and said amen for every sentence.

Soon, I sensed some trouble. Others in the meeting also sensed trouble in the way we are moving. We asked the brothers from LSM why we should read only Witness Lees writings, why not other some other Christian authors books? We told them we need to listen the voice of Lord that lead us to a holy living rather than study something someone wrote long ago. We asked them to study Witness Lees writings privately and not in general meetings. We encouraged them to share from Bible what they learned during daily meditation. To my great surprise one brother from LSM told me that Witness Lees writing contain all that is spiritually required for a man. We were surprised because according to us Bible contain all that is required for a man spiritually. I felt undue importance is given to Witness Lee and Christ is pushed to background. This was done in a manner very difficult to detect.We decided to pray to God to reveal the true intentions of people from LSM. We were fully convinced that Bible is all-sufficient for us, and as His children, He will speak to us if we are sincere in seeking His face. We felt there is no need for depending on another book for learning bible. We felt it is better to trust in the Lord than man.”(The Local Church Cult in India)


The man above also writes, concerning about the “man is God and God is man” theory that I have also recently read in one of the Revival books written by Lee:


“One of the most important heretical teaching of LSM and affiliated local Churches is man (overcomers) will become God. They confuse their statements by telling overcomers will become God but not Godhead. They claim “We believers in Christ may become God in Life, in Nature, in Constitution, in appearance and in Expression but not God head and not object of worship” Affirmation and critique by Ron Kangas Vol Vll No 2 October 2002 [this is doublespeak, for no one can be God in any way, because only God is God]. Some other statements made by the above-mentioned agent of LSM as explanation to this teaching is given below.


 “We affirm the innate ability of human beings as creatures of God to be born of God to become God in life and in nature but not in Godhead..Page7“Human children have the life and nature of their parents. Because we have been born of God we have life and nature of God and in this sense we are God.”…Page 20 [this is the same as saying because a child has their parent’s nature, that then the child is the parent, which of course is not the case; the parent is the parent and the child is the child] “By eating, digesting and assimilating God in Christ as our food, we shall be constituted with God and in this way become God………..Page 24“Unless we become God we cannot be the body of Christ and unless we become God we cannot be New Jerusalem.”…Page26The above teaching is nothing but the teachings of New Age Movement represented by some non-Christian religions.”


How great is the love the Father has lavished on us that we should be called CHILDREN OF GOD 1 John 3:1Yet to all those who received Him he gave the right to become the CHILDREN OF GOD John 1:12On the basis of above words we can conclude we believers are CHILDREN OF GOD and NOT GOD in any “sense” as Ron Kangas says. Witness Lee in his book God-men wrote, “However, according to the Scriptures, we, the believers in Christ, were all born of God to be His sons. As the sons of God, surely we are God-men. We are the same as the One of whom we were born. It would be impossible to be born of God and not be the sons of God. Since we are the sons of God, we are God-men.”



According to Witness lee we are same as the One (God) of whom we are born, “..The Bible, according to God’s economy, teaches all God’s chosen ones, who have believed in Christ and have been regenerated by the Spirit and who have become the God-men, to be divine persons (Gal. 2:20; Phil. 1:19-21a).” “We are not turtles, because we do not have the turtle nature. We are men, for we do have the human nature. But we have also been born of God; we are God’s sons, God’s children. Thus, we have God’s nature. Since we have God’s nature, are we not God? [to have God’s life and nature does not mean we are God for only God is God and Witness Lee’s conclusion is clearly wrong]. In fact, we are God in His life and His nature, but not in His Godhead.”
There are many such statements. I don’t want to fill the pages with such heretical statements. Let us look into reasons of such arguments. According to Witness Lee believers have God’s nature so they become God. Witness Lees many revelations were actually based on the teaching he got from his mother. His mother taught him those who eat fish smells like fish. Throughout his life, he argued based on this type of teaching.
He wrote “What we eat we become and we express”. Then he went on giving the fish example….(Witness Lee-Basic revelations in scripture). Another time he told Americans smell milk because they consume lot of milk. (living 6) This type of thinking ultimately led to the argument that those having the nature of God are God.


“By eating, digesting and assimilating God in Christ as our food we shall be constituted with God and in this way we become God”…. Page 20
We can see the same “eating fish will smell fish” style arguments Witness Lee literally had a dictatorial style of functioning in running LSM and Local churches. Initially every one respected him and listened. Latter when he started getting strange revelations, people either left or those who feared continued. His downfall started when He started thinking himself as some one who is specially called for the restoration of church. Witness Lee’s followers (they are trained to tell as coworker’s of Witness Lee. But reality is they were literally his slaves) claim that church recovery start with Witness lee. I happened to come in contact with those who worked with Witness Lee and faced very bad experiences. Only if you rub with them on wrong side you will come to know their so-called “Gods nature” [in actuality, demonic nature] in them. Problem with many who claim to be God in nature and life and so on is others are not able to see that in them. When they go to court and claim millions of dollars I wonder which nature is acting. Our Lord prayed for the forgiveness of those who crucified Him. It is true Paul appealed to Caesar so that he can take gospel to Rome. When he went to Rome, he never talked about the suffering and asked for damages in millions. Now tell me brothers and sisters whose nature is it that makes you to take the one who criticizes you to court. Many people went bankrupt and became pauper because of the “Divine nature “of LSM and company (If you want proof I can give you). (The Local Church Cult in India)


Here’s another website where a guy also writes of his experience and investigation of LSM:

When a group like LSM uses biblical language and biblical imagery, it can be difficult to discern the error because when you read what they write, you think they mean one thing, but they actually mean something else completely. Thus things become clear to me when I was able to see the negations made by LSM. This is the error Hank Hanegraaff and those who are defending Lee and LSM. Rather than looking at the contrast, they have devoted all of their effort to finding similarities. But what Lee and LSM believe becomes clear when they say what they do not believe. Thus this post will teach by way of contrast.

The Triune God

Much of the debate about Witness Lee’s teaching is focused on his view of the Trinity, so I won’t spend a lot of time discussing it. I encourage you to read Besiner’s article and Geisler’s article above.

The statement of faith on the Living Stream Ministries website says “God is eternally one and also eternally the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, the three being distinct but not separate.” Sounds fine, but note what Beisner says in this 2003 article:

“Look closely. Notice that it doesn’t say what the three are as “distinct”? What are the Father, the Son, and the Spirit? Cabbages? Angels? Compact discs? Extensive reading in Witness Lee’s writings discovers considerable hesitation to affirm what Christiainity has affirmed through the ages: that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, though they are one God, are distinct Persons.”


For example, Lee says: “The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not three seperate persons or three Gods; they are one God, one reality, one person… God is triune; that is, He is three-one. In some theological writings, the preposition in is added between three and one to make three-in-one. 


However, it is more accurate to say that God is three-one. Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1970), p. 48


Lee clarified what he meant by triune. He meant three-one, not three-in-one. And, to make sure people didn’t misunderstand him, he said he was teaching something different than the “traditional” understanding of the Trinity:


“The traditional explanation of the Trinity is grossly inadequate and borders on tritheism. When the Spirit of God is joined with us, God is not left behind, nor does Christ remain on the throne. This is the impression Christianity gives. They think of the Father as one Person, sending the Son, another Person, to accomplish redemption, after which the Son sends the Spirit, yet another Person. The Spirit, in traditional thinking, comes into the believers, while the Father and Son are left on the throne. When believers pray, they are taught to bow before the Father and pray in the name of the Son. To split the Godhead into these separate Persons is not the revelation of the Bible, but the doctrine of the Nicene Creed”Witness Lee, Life Messages (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1979), p. 164

These quotes are both found in the Open Letter. The people I met with gave me a binder full of Lee’s writings that corresponded to the quotes in the Open Letter. Their intent was to show me the whole context of the quotes. I’m not certain what they thought that would prove however, since none of the quotes were taken out of context. The context only worsened what Lee was communicating. 

The False Gospel of Witness Lee and the Living Stream Ministries



There is a book written by a woman with her experiences in the LSM life that can be found here: The Thread of Gold (I have not read this book myself yet)


Some other articles:


There are many more resources I have found concerning Witness Lee and the LSM that I don’t currently have time to list. That is not to say that I’m not fully telling the truth about the amount of research I have done about this or the experiences I have had or witnessed myself.

But I do not feel that all of my efforts should be focusing on my findings and sharing ALL of them with the whole world. I need to set my focus on what God wants me to be doing in my own life and not spend all of my time trying to help others understand the discernment I have received about single concepts and views of one man claiming we can all become God, though not the “Godhead.”


A lot of my concern also came about after reading some things other people have written in their experiences with churches that follow Witness Lee and are under LSM. One thought that first came to mind was, “Surely the church I’m going to isn’t that way. It sure doesn’t seem that way.”
What I had to remember is that though the one I was attending didn’t seem to be verbally encouraging others to act a certain way, it wasn’t encouraging others to seek to express themselves in any other way than how they were doing it. They might say that you can do that or should, but once you start seeing everyone doing the same thing it’s probably difficult to step out and do your own thing.
Another concern is the “That doesn’t happen here. I haven’t personally seen it.” attitude. It’s incredibly easy to write something off as being not true, or not true to what you’re involved in, because you don’t want to see or believe it. Or because you haven’t been paying attention to the things around you.

Open your eyes and be aware. See if you notice anything on your own and pray about it. Let God speak to you on it. Ask elders or other believers in the church questions and see how they react. 

I myself have tried to ask some questions regarding a completely different manner and was kind of blown off. They tried to disregard my questions, never fully answering them, and quickly change the subject.
I’ve also written an email asking one of the leaders in the church some slight questions on if the church reaches out to any groups or ministries locally, or reads any other books that aren’t published by LSM. (I did this in a respectable, ‘I’m just curious’ kind of way. Not an interrogative, negative way.) I have gotten no response and I honestly don’t think I ever will.

I will continue to pray that God will open the eyes of those many believers out there about all of this. Please keep in mind that my intention was not to hurt anyone’s feelings or to call anyone out on what they might be involved in, but to help them see what the ones they’re following are involved in and be aware.

Continue to ask questions and seek the truth yourself and always include God in on your search.